Moral Choices In Games

Another rant of Anthony Burch I totally agree with:

http://www.destructoid.com/rev-rant-moral-choice-133731.phtml

http://www.destructoid.com/rev-rant-paragon-renegade-162407.phtml

I think he reads too much into it.

Be a bad guy in the game! its more fun

Man, Fallout 3 gave me an interesting moral issue: If you disarm the bomb, aren't you condemning the Children of Atom to being crazies? And if you detonate the bomb and kill them, Wouldn't that make you their savior? Maybe killing in this instance is a good thing? That said, I took the quick route to leveling up early and disarmed the bomb. Then I got to work irradiating myself for Moira.

Holy fucking shit. I never though about that!!!!

Well, when Burke gives you your caps, you lose karma, so I think it's bad, you know, killing an entire town.

ShamelessCrimes wrote:Man, Fallout 3 gave me an interesting moral issue: If you disarm the bomb, aren't you condemning the Children of Atom to being crazies? And if you detonate the bomb and kill them, Wouldn't that make you their savior? Maybe killing in this instance is a good thing? That said, I took the quick route to leveling up early and disarmed the bomb. Then I got to work irradiating myself for Moira.

This is the reason why morality in games sucks. Like in reality.

If you look at it from my perspective, morality is just something to think about when you're bored, and your choices don't really matter. Sure, they alter the world, but there's an ending either way. Fallout is playable if you detonate Megaton, just like you would keep living if you detonated an atom bomb in some city in real life. Except, well, you can't really create a split save in real life. But the karma system is cool as a toy and a side effect, so I tend to like it.

I was playing Infamous the other day and i was brought to a moral decision. Either let the civilians take the food and everyone get their fair share of food, or kill one or two and hope they flee in fear and be fed for over a month. I was about to kill them but then i realized that the amount of time i took to make the decision was too long and everyone made off with their share of food already...

Note that my problem is not with moral decisions in games, per se. In fact, I like the idea very much, but the way many games execute the idea is very shallow, so I rather prefer it to be left out.

For one thing, a problem most share is that the game coerces you to make certain decisions to keep or strengthen your alignment, not giving you actual choice but simply a "good" or "evil" alternative trying to thinly veil an attempt to add replay value in the guise of a deep game element.

Another problem is how certain games morally rate certain actions. For example, helping someone in need is always, no matter the circumstances, a good deed even if you just did it for the reward or even PR (because in the land of computer roleplaying games Smug Snakes are unknown). Apparently, a self-obsessed bastard only working for his own gain is a Saint as long as he did not had to kill innocents to serve his interest.

On the other hand a really EVIL character must not only be evil in all the big elements, but in the small things too! Genocide is not enough, you must flip off old ladies and jaywalk or lest you fall back to -OH NOES!- neutral!

It also always dissapoints me when a game comes up with really great moral dillemmas, but do not follow all the way through to its conclusion. Whoever has solved the Tenpenny Towers Quest in Fallout 3 the "good karma way" will understand.

I do not want morality in games to be simply another value in your character stats, but a true part of the world and story. The Witcher is an excellent example of how this can be done and I hope they refine the system when the sequel hits.


Hmmm... I tried to keep this short but it already got this large, so I shut up now.

[]Plus clout for Saibot. I like to see well thought posts[]

I like it better when there is no good or bad, and no "bars" telling you as such. I like where they just have actions and reactions to their choices.

Moses wrote:I like it better when there is no good or bad, and no "bars" telling you as such. I like where they just have actions and reactions to their choices.

^The less tl;dr version of what I was trying to convey.

I do what I can.

I get that. For instance, TDSA has a problem remembering that people don't like being murdered, so he's The Devil in Fallout 3, but I could get the same karma ranking just for harmlessly stealing everyone's bent tin cans.

Moses wrote:I do what I can.

[I'm a seven foot man]

[Alexander_The_Nine] wrote:
[I'm a seven foot man]

SO AM I!!!!!

A mans walking through town when he sees a sign in front of a house:

"Talking Dog for Sale."

He rings the bell and the owner tells him the dog is in the backyard.
The guy goes into the backyard and sees a black mutt just sitting there.

"You talk?" he asks.

"Yep," the dog replies.

"So, what's your story?"

The animal looks up and says, "Well, I discovered my gift of talking
pretty young and I wanted to help the government, so I told the CIA
about my gift, and in no time they had me jetting from country to
country, sitting in rooms with spies and world leaders, because no one
figured a dog would be eavesdropping. I was one of their most valuable
spies eight years running. The jetting around really tired me out, and
I knew I wasn't getting any younger and I wanted to settle down. So I
signed up for a job at the airport to do some undercover security work,
mostly wandering near suspicious characters and listening in. I
uncovered some incredible dealings there and was awarded a batch of
medals. Had a wife, a mess of puppies, and now I'm just retired."

The guy is amazed. He goes back in and asks the owner what he wants for the dog.

The owner says, "Ten bucks."

The guy says, "This dog is amazing. Why so cheap?"

The owner replies, "Cause he's a fucking liar."

ShamelessCrimes wrote:I get that. For instance, TDSA has a problem
remembering that people don't like being murdered, so he's The Devil in
Fallout 3, but I could get the same karma ranking just for harmlessly
stealing everyone's bent tin cans.

Which is another problem. Good point.

ShamelessCrimes wrote:I get that. For instance, TDSA has a problem remembering that people don't like being murdered, so he's The Devil in Fallout 3, but I could get the same karma ranking just for harmlessly stealing everyone's bent tin cans.

I love when I accidentally steal those cans and get shot at by angry townspeople.

Moses wrote:A mans walking through town when he sees a sign in front of a house:

"Talking Dog for Sale."

He rings the bell and the owner tells him the dog is in the backyard.
The guy goes into the backyard and sees a black mutt just sitting there.

"You talk?" he asks.

"Yep," the dog replies.

"So, what's your story?"

The animal looks up and says, "Well, I discovered my gift of talking
pretty young and I wanted to help the government, so I told the CIA
about my gift, and in no time they had me jetting from country to
country, sitting in rooms with spies and world leaders, because no one
figured a dog would be eavesdropping. I was one of their most valuable
spies eight years running. The jetting around really tired me out, and
I knew I wasn't getting any younger and I wanted to settle down. So I
signed up for a job at the airport to do some undercover security work,
mostly wandering near suspicious characters and listening in. I
uncovered some incredible dealings there and was awarded a batch of
medals. Had a wife, a mess of puppies, and now I'm just retired."

The guy is amazed. He goes back in and asks the owner what he wants for the dog.

The owner says, "Ten bucks."

The guy says, "This dog is amazing. Why so cheap?"

The owner replies, "Cause he's a fucking liar."

i loled at moses story but yea that guy needs to shut up i think. although as many seem to agree on this topic morality doesn't seem to play a monumental role in games i still like the moral choices in bioshoc i thought they were so so in fallout 3 and fable 2 but i think given time they can be refined into real game decider's. but for the time being i don't consider them to be worthy of buying a game or not.